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yap error

Evan Cooch
Sure, but when the error message is simply 'internal error', there
isn't much to report that would be of value, is there? ;-)

At any rate, problem solved -- you simply need to manually install
*all* of the newly compiled, and newly named packages.

Am Mon, 7 Nov 2016 19:35:40 -0500 schrieb Evan Cooch:

> Turns out my previous post might have a simple explanation - yap.exe
> seems to be broken. I can't even start it standalone.  It throws an error.
>
> I'm using 64-bit MikTeX on a 64-bit Win7 machine.

You are now using latex and miktex for quite a long time. You should
have learned by now that "throws an error" is not a sensible problem
description.

--
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Re: yap error

Ulrike Fischer-2
Am Tue, 8 Nov 2016 10:53:22 -0500 schrieb Evan Cooch:

> Sure, but when the error message is simply 'internal error', there
> isn't much to report that would be of value, is there? ;-)

The information "internal error" excludes some other possible error
messages (like e.g. a ghostscript error due to a wrong renderer
method).


--
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http://www.troubleshooting-tex.de/


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Re: yap error

Evan Cooch
Not this time -- contained no information at all, which is why I didn't
post anything.

Point is now moot.

On 11/09/2016 04:07 AM, Ulrike Fischer wrote:
> Am Tue, 8 Nov 2016 10:53:22 -0500 schrieb Evan Cooch:
>
>> Sure, but when the error message is simply 'internal error', there
>> isn't much to report that would be of value, is there? ;-)
> The information "internal error" excludes some other possible error
> messages (like e.g. a ghostscript error due to a wrong renderer
> method).
>
>


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Re: yap error

George N. White III
On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 8:05 AM, Evan Cooch <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Not this time -- contained no information at all, which is why I didn't
> post anything.
>
> Point is now moot.
>

Not at all.  Think about the many other MiKTeX users who are going to
encounter the same issue today and will be goggling "yap internal error".

Your "solution" is not a good one.  The "internal error" message
is a bug in yap.  Using "yap --trace--<traceflags>" could have
provided information needed to fix the bug yesterday.

In fact, the bug appears to be caused by missing modes.mf,
provided by the metafont package.   Perhaps yap should revert
to dvips rendering if metafont is not available (in which case
it does not make sense to make the yap package depend on metafont).

Just because you aren't obliged to contribute financially to MiKTeX
doesn't free you of a moral obligation to the community.  A small
extra effort on your part could potentially save many others from
wasting time.


> On 11/09/2016 04:07 AM, Ulrike Fischer wrote:
> > Am Tue, 8 Nov 2016 10:53:22 -0500 schrieb Evan Cooch:
> >
> >> Sure, but when the error message is simply 'internal error', there
> >> isn't much to report that would be of value, is there? ;-)
> > The information "internal error" excludes some other possible error
> > messages (like e.g. a ghostscript error due to a wrong renderer
> > method).
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------
> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> Training and support from Colfax.
> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
> _______________________________________________
> Q: How can I leave the mailing list?
> A: See http://docs.miktex.org/faq/support.html#leavingml
>



--
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Head of St. Margarets Bay, Nova Scotia
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
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Re: yap error

Evan Cooch
So, if I'd known about setting --trace when starting yap, it would have
provided further information. Thanks for the tip. I'll have to see if I
can find the technical docs that explain this more fully.

On the other hand, being chastised for failing to use a feature I wasn't
aware of does very little to help, other than perhaps make you feel
morally superior (since you brought up morality -- really, its a
morality issue?), despite the fact I make $$$ donations to MikTeX on an
annual basis (which I'm not morally obligated to do).

Now that we confounded morality with financials and technical insights,
lets move on. If you want a mea culpa then fine.

> Not at all.  Think about the many other MiKTeX users who are going to
> encounter the same issue today and will be goggling "yap internal error".
>
> Your "solution" is not a good one.  The "internal error" message
> is a bug in yap.  Using "yap --trace--<traceflags>" could have
> provided information needed to fix the bug yesterday.
>
> In fact, the bug appears to be caused by missing modes.mf,
> provided by the metafont package.   Perhaps yap should revert
> to dvips rendering if metafont is not available (in which case
> it does not make sense to make the yap package depend on metafont).
>
> Just because you aren't obliged to contribute financially to MiKTeX
> doesn't free you of a moral obligation to the community.  A small
> extra effort on your part could potentially save many others from
> wasting time.
>
>
>> On 11/09/2016 04:07 AM, Ulrike Fischer wrote:
>>> Am Tue, 8 Nov 2016 10:53:22 -0500 schrieb Evan Cooch:
>>>
>>>> Sure, but when the error message is simply 'internal error', there
>>>> isn't much to report that would be of value, is there? ;-)
>>> The information "internal error" excludes some other possible error
>>> messages (like e.g. a ghostscript error due to a wrong renderer
>>> method).
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> ------------------
>> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
>> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
>> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
>> Training and support from Colfax.
>> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
>> _______________________________________________
>> Q: How can I leave the mailing list?
>> A: See http://docs.miktex.org/faq/support.html#leavingml
>>
>
>


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Re: yap error

George N. White III
On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 10:30 AM, Evan Cooch <[hidden email]> wrote:

> So, if I'd known about setting --trace when starting yap, it would have
> provided further information. Thanks for the tip. I'll have to see if I
> can find the technical docs that explain this more fully.
>

The MiKTeX FAQ has a trobleshooting section that explains how to use
DebugView, which you have to download from SysInternals, but does
not have an installer and can be used with "admin" privileges.  The
FAQ suggests setting an environment variable, but many programs
have a command-line option.


On the other hand, being chastised for failing to use a feature I wasn't
> aware of does very little to help, other than perhaps make you feel
> morally superior (since you brought up morality -- really, its a
> morality issue?), despite the fact I make $$$ donations to MikTeX on an
> annual basis (which I'm not morally obligated to do).
>

Your initial faux pas was not mentioning the exact error message.  Your
second was assuming there was nothing more to be done once yap was
working for you.


> Now that we confounded morality with financials and technical insights,
> lets move on. If you want a mea culpa then fine.
>
>
Right.  The public record now has all the information that might be needed
by others who encounter the problem.


> > Not at all.  Think about the many other MiKTeX users who are going to
> > encounter the same issue today and will be goggling "yap internal error".
> >
> > Your "solution" is not a good one.  The "internal error" message
> > is a bug in yap.  Using "yap --trace--<traceflags>" could have
> > provided information needed to fix the bug yesterday.
> >
> > In fact, the bug appears to be caused by missing modes.mf,
> > provided by the metafont package.   Perhaps yap should revert
> > to dvips rendering if metafont is not available (in which case
> > it does not make sense to make the yap package depend on metafont).
> >
> > Just because you aren't obliged to contribute financially to MiKTeX
> > doesn't free you of a moral obligation to the community.  A small
> > extra effort on your part could potentially save many others from
> > wasting time.
> >
> >
> >> On 11/09/2016 04:07 AM, Ulrike Fischer wrote:
> >>> Am Tue, 8 Nov 2016 10:53:22 -0500 schrieb Evan Cooch:
> >>>
> >>>> Sure, but when the error message is simply 'internal error', there
> >>>> isn't much to report that would be of value, is there? ;-)
> >>> The information "internal error" excludes some other possible error
> >>> messages (like e.g. a ghostscript error due to a wrong renderer
> >>> method).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> ------------------
> >> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
> >> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
> >> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> >> Training and support from Colfax.
> >> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Q: How can I leave the mailing list?
> >> A: See http://docs.miktex.org/faq/support.html#leavingml
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------
> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> Training and support from Colfax.
> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
> _______________________________________________
> Q: How can I leave the mailing list?
> A: See http://docs.miktex.org/faq/support.html#leavingml
>



--
George N. White III <[hidden email]>
Head of St. Margarets Bay, Nova Scotia
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
Training and support from Colfax.
Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
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Re: yap error

Taylor, Robert
In reply to this post by Evan Cooch
I must say I don't think some of the "holier than thou" responses that Evan has received speak all that well of a friendly and cohesive community, regardless of any (highly dubious) allusions to moral behaviour.  Most people want to use miktex like they do their car - they'd like it work without having to know how the things under the bonnet work.  They will welcome the help of this on-line support community (which contains many people who are very experienced about miktex and are supremely kind enough to help others with their problems) when things go wrong.  But, similarly to when one has one's car repaired, you prefer that the mechanic does not give you a lecture for how little you know about your car's working parts!!

Best wishes,
Rob

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Evan Cooch [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: 09 November 2016 14:31
> To: A place for MiKTeX users to discuss MiKTeX related questions.
> Subject: Re: [MiKTeX] yap error
>
> So, if I'd known about setting --trace when starting yap, it would have
> provided further information. Thanks for the tip. I'll have to see if I can find
> the technical docs that explain this more fully.
>
> On the other hand, being chastised for failing to use a feature I wasn't aware
> of does very little to help, other than perhaps make you feel morally
> superior (since you brought up morality -- really, its a morality issue?),
> despite the fact I make $$$ donations to MikTeX on an annual basis (which
> I'm not morally obligated to do).
>
> Now that we confounded morality with financials and technical insights, lets
> move on. If you want a mea culpa then fine.
>
> > Not at all.  Think about the many other MiKTeX users who are going to
> > encounter the same issue today and will be goggling "yap internal error".
> >
> > Your "solution" is not a good one.  The "internal error" message is a
> > bug in yap.  Using "yap --trace--<traceflags>" could have provided
> > information needed to fix the bug yesterday.
> >
> > In fact, the bug appears to be caused by missing modes.mf,
> > provided by the metafont package.   Perhaps yap should revert
> > to dvips rendering if metafont is not available (in which case it does
> > not make sense to make the yap package depend on metafont).
> >
> > Just because you aren't obliged to contribute financially to MiKTeX
> > doesn't free you of a moral obligation to the community.  A small
> > extra effort on your part could potentially save many others from
> > wasting time.
> >
> >
> >> On 11/09/2016 04:07 AM, Ulrike Fischer wrote:
> >>> Am Tue, 8 Nov 2016 10:53:22 -0500 schrieb Evan Cooch:
> >>>
> >>>> Sure, but when the error message is simply 'internal error', there
> >>>> isn't much to report that would be of value, is there? ;-)
> >>> The information "internal error" excludes some other possible error
> >>> messages (like e.g. a ghostscript error due to a wrong renderer
> >>> method).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> ------------------
> >> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors Access to
> >> Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
> >> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> >> Training and support from Colfax.
> >> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Q: How can I leave the mailing list?
> >> A: See http://docs.miktex.org/faq/support.html#leavingml
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors Access to Intel Xeon
> Phi processor-based developer platforms.
> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> Training and support from Colfax.
> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
> _______________________________________________
> Q: How can I leave the mailing list?
> A: See http://docs.miktex.org/faq/support.html#leavingml

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: yap error

Ulrike Fischer-2
In reply to this post by Evan Cooch
Am Wed, 9 Nov 2016 09:30:57 -0500 schrieb Evan Cooch:

> On the other hand, being chastised for failing to use a feature I wasn't
> aware of does very little to help,

I didn't expect you to try to debug the problem yourself or to hunt
for more information.

But be more exact when reporting the errors you get. You may find
"internal error" not informative but it is actually a specific error
message and it is important that you got this message and not e.g. a
message about a missing dll or an api-error or access denied error
or ...



--
Ulrike Fischer
http://www.troubleshooting-tex.de/


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Re: yap error

George N. White III
In reply to this post by Taylor, Robert
On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 10:58 AM, Taylor, Robert <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I must say I don't think some of the "holier than thou" responses that
> Evan has received speak all that well of a friendly and cohesive community,
> regardless of any (highly dubious) allusions to moral behaviour.  Most
> people want to use miktex like they do their car - they'd like it work
> without having to know how the things under the bonnet work.  They will
> welcome the help of this on-line support community (which contains many
> people who are very experienced about miktex and are supremely kind enough
> to help others with their problems) when things go wrong.  But, similarly
> to when one has one's car repaired, you prefer that the mechanic does not
> give you a lecture for how little you know about your car's working parts!!
>

Mechanics get paid to fix your car.   A community falls apart if there are
too many people asking others to do work without contributing to the
effort.   There is very little money supporting TeX, so while it would be
nice if others would fix our problems for us, the reality is that everyone
who relies on TeX needs to a) contribute what they can and b) put some
effort into learning how to contribute more over time.
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html is a useful guide for
people reporting bugs.


> Best wishes,
> Rob
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Evan Cooch [mailto:[hidden email]]
> > Sent: 09 November 2016 14:31
> > To: A place for MiKTeX users to discuss MiKTeX related questions.
> > Subject: Re: [MiKTeX] yap error
> >
> > So, if I'd known about setting --trace when starting yap, it would have
> > provided further information. Thanks for the tip. I'll have to see if I
> can find
> > the technical docs that explain this more fully.
> >
> > On the other hand, being chastised for failing to use a feature I wasn't
> aware
> > of does very little to help, other than perhaps make you feel morally
> > superior (since you brought up morality -- really, its a morality
> issue?),
> > despite the fact I make $$$ donations to MikTeX on an annual basis (which
> > I'm not morally obligated to do).
> >
> > Now that we confounded morality with financials and technical insights,
> lets
> > move on. If you want a mea culpa then fine.
> >
> > > Not at all.  Think about the many other MiKTeX users who are going to
> > > encounter the same issue today and will be goggling "yap internal
> error".
> > >
> > > Your "solution" is not a good one.  The "internal error" message is a
> > > bug in yap.  Using "yap --trace--<traceflags>" could have provided
> > > information needed to fix the bug yesterday.
> > >
> > > In fact, the bug appears to be caused by missing modes.mf,
> > > provided by the metafont package.   Perhaps yap should revert
> > > to dvips rendering if metafont is not available (in which case it does
> > > not make sense to make the yap package depend on metafont).
> > >
> > > Just because you aren't obliged to contribute financially to MiKTeX
> > > doesn't free you of a moral obligation to the community.  A small
> > > extra effort on your part could potentially save many others from
> > > wasting time.
> > >
> > >
> > >> On 11/09/2016 04:07 AM, Ulrike Fischer wrote:
> > >>> Am Tue, 8 Nov 2016 10:53:22 -0500 schrieb Evan Cooch:
> > >>>
> > >>>> Sure, but when the error message is simply 'internal error', there
> > >>>> isn't much to report that would be of value, is there? ;-)
> > >>> The information "internal error" excludes some other possible error
> > >>> messages (like e.g. a ghostscript error due to a wrong renderer
> > >>> method).
>

--
George N. White III <[hidden email]>
Head of St. Margarets Bay, Nova Scotia
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
Training and support from Colfax.
Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
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Re: yap error

Taylor, Robert
A community also falls apart when the elite patronise the ordinary member - I refer you to the outcome of a certain recent election .......

The user who reports problems with the miktex system helps the community too.  It is only when people use software that bugs and problems become apparent.  But if users feel talked down to or patronised then they stop bothering to report or share bugs for fear of being talked down to or made to look stupid.  Then everyone loses.  By treating lesser miktex using mortals with more respect when asking them for more feedback on the problem they have found then you may find them more forthcoming with the information they provide and more likely to contribute better in the future.

Just saying, sometimes you get more out of people through mutual respect.   I am not pointing a finger at anyone specific, just making a general point about how a community can best operate.




On 9 Nov 2016, at 23:52, "George N. White III" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 10:58 AM, Taylor, Robert <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> I must say I don't think some of the "holier than thou" responses that
>> Evan has received speak all that well of a friendly and cohesive community,
>> regardless of any (highly dubious) allusions to moral behaviour.  Most
>> people want to use miktex like they do their car - they'd like it work
>> without having to know how the things under the bonnet work.  They will
>> welcome the help of this on-line support community (which contains many
>> people who are very experienced about miktex and are supremely kind enough
>> to help others with their problems) when things go wrong.  But, similarly
>> to when one has one's car repaired, you prefer that the mechanic does not
>> give you a lecture for how little you know about your car's working parts!!
>>
>
> Mechanics get paid to fix your car.   A community falls apart if there are
> too many people asking others to do work without contributing to the
> effort.   There is very little money supporting TeX, so while it would be
> nice if others would fix our problems for us, the reality is that everyone
> who relies on TeX needs to a) contribute what they can and b) put some
> effort into learning how to contribute more over time.
> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html is a useful guide for
> people reporting bugs.
>
>
>> Best wishes,
>> Rob
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Evan Cooch [mailto:[hidden email]]
>>> Sent: 09 November 2016 14:31
>>> To: A place for MiKTeX users to discuss MiKTeX related questions.
>>> Subject: Re: [MiKTeX] yap error
>>>
>>> So, if I'd known about setting --trace when starting yap, it would have
>>> provided further information. Thanks for the tip. I'll have to see if I
>> can find
>>> the technical docs that explain this more fully.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, being chastised for failing to use a feature I wasn't
>> aware
>>> of does very little to help, other than perhaps make you feel morally
>>> superior (since you brought up morality -- really, its a morality
>> issue?),
>>> despite the fact I make $$$ donations to MikTeX on an annual basis (which
>>> I'm not morally obligated to do).
>>>
>>> Now that we confounded morality with financials and technical insights,
>> lets
>>> move on. If you want a mea culpa then fine.
>>>
>>>> Not at all.  Think about the many other MiKTeX users who are going to
>>>> encounter the same issue today and will be goggling "yap internal
>> error".
>>>>
>>>> Your "solution" is not a good one.  The "internal error" message is a
>>>> bug in yap.  Using "yap --trace--<traceflags>" could have provided
>>>> information needed to fix the bug yesterday.
>>>>
>>>> In fact, the bug appears to be caused by missing modes.mf,
>>>> provided by the metafont package.   Perhaps yap should revert
>>>> to dvips rendering if metafont is not available (in which case it does
>>>> not make sense to make the yap package depend on metafont).
>>>>
>>>> Just because you aren't obliged to contribute financially to MiKTeX
>>>> doesn't free you of a moral obligation to the community.  A small
>>>> extra effort on your part could potentially save many others from
>>>> wasting time.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/09/2016 04:07 AM, Ulrike Fischer wrote:
>>>>>> Am Tue, 8 Nov 2016 10:53:22 -0500 schrieb Evan Cooch:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sure, but when the error message is simply 'internal error', there
>>>>>>> isn't much to report that would be of value, is there? ;-)
>>>>>> The information "internal error" excludes some other possible error
>>>>>> messages (like e.g. a ghostscript error due to a wrong renderer
>>>>>> method).
>>
>
> --
> George N. White III <[hidden email]>
> Head of St. Margarets Bay, Nova Scotia
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> Training and support from Colfax.
> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
> _______________________________________________
> Q: How can I leave the mailing list?
> A: See http://docs.miktex.org/faq/support.html#leavingml

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
Training and support from Colfax.
Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
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